Christianity vs Athiesm. A debate at Westminster Theological Seminary between Christopher Hitchens, renowned atheist, and Douglas Wilson, renowned Christian author.
On July 27, 2010, In Uncategorized, by admin
Christianity vs Athiesm. A debate at Westminster Theological Seminary between Christopher Hitchens, renowned atheist, and Douglas Wilson, renowned Christian author.
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@pcknights90 That doesn’t mean it’s true, we may as well believe Harry Potter is true because it was written in a book.
chose a set of principles, stick with them, and defend them.
because of the judeo-christian principles i chose to believe i find my life to be more meaningful,enjoyables, and stressless.
words of wisdom in scripture help me to find strength to make it through the tough times as well. some call it weakness, i call it strength. have an attitude of gratitude.
return evil with kindness.
Finally – a piece of free advice. If you want to convert me back to Christianity, you are going the worst way about it. Not only are you making completely unfounded assumptions, throwing in the odd bit of scripturally sounding words along the way, (which, remember, I believe to be man-made), but you are also speaking in tones of arrogance and superciliousness.
So:
Want to convert me? Show me evidence or logical reasons to believe in a god, and treat me courteously.
Else toddle off please.
Continuing, you have made many assumptions about me, and my character, all of which are unfounded. For example, the assertion that I speak lies whenever I like.
As it happens, I find it very difficult to lie. This isn’t a boast, because I actually don’t have any control over it. Not only that, but I struggle to lie when *it is the right thing to do*. I tend to get flustered, and it is pretty obvious I am lying – ergo, I do not knowingly tell falsehoods.
@josedeguzman14
This is what we call assuming the conclusion. Well – actually, there are a lot of things I could point out, but I’ll stick with this one.
You assume that God not only exists but that he also has all these different traits, therefore the conclusion follows. Without saying whether your conclusions are true or false, I’ll give you a contrary ‘argument’ built the same way.
God doesn’t exist. Therefore everything you believe has been made up.
Did that persuade you?
You know the right from wrong, my friend, you know if what is happening to you is bad or good. It is so with me. I know that to speak truth is good and to speak lies is bad. I was delivered from speaking falsehood so I am in the right path. And you know you speak lies whenever you like and you know it is bad because you fool your mankind. God hates him whose tongue deceives other people. And He will not unpunish him. Liars will be put to lake of fire. But God forgives and saves from going to it
If you used to be a Christian, you were obedient to God, and if you were obedient to God, He would not allow you to be deceived by Satan, because God saves His sons from the wiles of the devil but the LORD did not deliver you so, it means something. You did not become obedient to Him that time. You did not really believe Him or His words in truth. So He has forsaken you.
Also – I hope you do actually search for reasons to follow the commandments in the Bible. Blind obedience is one of the most dangerous, and arguably immoral, traits anyone can have.
Ask yourself this question:
“What if I’m wrong? What if the Bible was written by men, and not a god.”
If the Bible truly is divinely inspired, then there is nothing to fear. Questioning the reasons why what it says is good actually *is* good will merely give you greater insights into divinity, and morality.
@josedeguzman14
Unfortunately for your argument, I used to be a Christian – and indeed I did believe the words in it. If I had not, I wouldn’t have become the atheist I am today.
To clarify – one of the many reasons I am an atheist today is because I wasn’t satisfied with the contradictions in the Bible, and because I kept looking for solutions to them, I saw that there were none.
But anyway, you didn’t actually address my question.
If the bible has not changed my evil nature to holy, I would have been like you, but it did. When I believed its contents, it gave my heart desire to obey the commandments written in that book even without reason why should I follow them. And it happened not to me only but to so many others. Why? There must be a mystery behind this powerful book. And whose power is that which makes people Godly. You do not experience this because you have not yet tried to believe the words written in it.
If the bible has not changed my evil nature to holy, I would have been like you, but it did. When I believed its contents, it gave my heart desire to obey the commandments written in that book even without reason why should I follow them. And it happened not to me only but to so many others. Why? There must be a mystery behind this powerful book. And whose power is that which makes people Godly. You do not experience this because you have not yet tried to believe the words written in it.
If the bible has not changed my evil nature to holy, I would have been like you, but it did. When I believed its contents, it gave my heart desire to obey the commandments written in that book even without reason why should I follow them. And it happened not to me only but to so many others. Why? There must be a mystery behind this powerful book. And whose power is that which makes people Godly. You do not experience this because you have not yet tried to believe the words written in it.
Hmm – the above should read ‘genuinely interested’, not ‘generally interested’. Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that… :-/
purpose i.e. Jesus, Mohamet, Brahma, YHWH, ALIENS, too many Thetans…who the hell can be sure…..you lack faith..God did it. thats all you need….well and a magic book….peace you purposeless heathen/infidel/sinner….but if you convert to somethinng..anything…you can go to well somewhere and praise it forever, hope they have beaches and ice cream…how the hell long is forever anyways? You better know because you gonna burn or freeze forever..Its all batshit…peace
Can any theist tell me just what this ‘reason for living’, that they apparently have and us atheists don’t, actually is?
I’m generally interested. I can’t, personally, think of one reason for life that a god would give that would make my life more worthwhile. I can actually think of some, however, that would make it not worth living.
i aint no sheep character…i dont need a book that was written by man to tell me how i should live my life…
no need to respond when the question is a dumb one
can hitchens get the point? where does his faith in human reasoning come from?
why should he believe that a logical conclusion is a true conclusion from a naturalistic standpoint?
I agree 100%. I was shaking my head when I heard him assert this.
Reason versus Atheism. I choose Reason.
“I begin with the Bible and you begin with reason.” ABSURD. This fool has no understanding whatsoever of reason, logic or sense. To pretend that a single book is even comparable with reason is completely ridiculous and pathetic.
thank god im an atheist
Hitchens did a great job in this section!
It’s crushing when the audience thinks they have him at, “You’ve only got one thought” which concludes with if you believe that one thought describes the rational process — then you have contempt for ‘thought’.
Jeering laughter to shame in 60 seconds … crushing, crushing.
This part of the argument is brilliant– the difference between reason and faith.